by
waves
@ 2006-10-27 - 18:17:48
LOCKING HORNS OVER CLEMENCY
ARVIND K.PANDEY
VOXPOPULI'S PIECE WHICH STATRED THE DEBATE
At last the blog of Pakistan spoke. Guess not because of my effort.
It has raised the proper issue of death sentense to Afzal Guru for terrorist attack on Indian Parliament. Though I do not agree with all the content in the post, I support this campaign as it can save life of a person, whatever his origin may be.
Human life is pracious and death punishment is socially sanctioned murder.
BUT...
One should not be selective in campaigning. The life of Sarabjit who is about to be hanged by Pakistan is equally important. It is clear case of mistaken identity.
Alongwith clemancy to Afzal I also ask Pakistan to give justice to Sarabjit who is poor farmer of Punjab.
Let us eliminate death penalty and this whole business of hanging people to death by law.
DO YOU AGREE?
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VOX POPULI'S INVITATION TO ME GO THROUGH THIS PIECE
Have you seen my post on Afzal hanging debate in response to post of Pakistan on the issue.
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ARVIND
Though I believe that eye for an eye policy has no meaning in civilised society ,the hard-core criminals don't deserve kind considerastion at all .Lighter punishment would not only lead to lawlessness but it is also a cruel joke with the family of sufferers .What about the lives of policemen lost in the Parliament's attack ? Take into consideration the whole thing from victim's perspective as well . It's a harsh reality that faking sympathy on the part of opportunists like Farooq Abdullah has led to emergence of vain concerns !
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VOXPOPULI
Dear Arvind, I think that discussing any specific case can lead nowhere. There are always pro and anti arguments for it.
I have great regard for ancient Indian judicial principles that clearly differ from western and Islamic principles of justice. Eye to an eye as justice for family of victims is not Indian concept of justice. They will not gain solace by killing any other person. This was the reason why in ancient India this principle was not adopted.
I think once upon a time India used to lead the world spiritually and intellectually. It was because of such principles. Now India is powerful and capable country. It need not follow medieval principles of justice.
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ARVIND
One has to keep in mind the fact that judiciary knows its limits very well, being guided by evidences and logical assumptions basking in the aura of Constitutional precedents .Aggreeing with your observbations let me state that such harsh sentences are pronounced in rarest of rare cases.This case false in the same bracket.So there is no need to shed crocodile tears over his death punishment . Consider What US did to Afghanistan when trade tower was attacked by the Talibanis ? Go to China and Saudi Arabia ,where no remorse can be expressed against death punishments given in petty offences !! Let's not make mockery of democratic virtues by voicing cheap sentiments etered crime or lawlessness.
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It seems you want me to discuss this case, which I wanted to avoid.
Ok. First you neither have power nor have guts of US to catch and punish main accused of the case. They are roaming freely in other country and your country cannot adopt US or Israel way of dealing with such issues as you do not have that much power.
Second, the main accused in the case was ceremoniously escorted by your own government out of prison.
Third, if you cannot catch main fish your insistence for execution of lower level of conspirators demonstrate your mean, weak nature.
Fourth, if you are US fan, do you know what punishment US court gave to the 9/11 accused conspirator? He was not given death punishment to avoid him turn into martyer. This despite of enormous power US have, unlike your country.
Fifth, do you know what was the exact impact of Maqbul Bhatt's execution on Kasmiri insurgency? Though you are not militarily and politically powerful as US, you are taking more risk by giving Kashmiri's a new hero. Why?
Sixth, Kasmiri insurgency is fading and declining in the wake of growing international pressure and desire for paece among Indian Kashmiris. By hanging Afzal and providing new symbol of injustice and martyerhood, are you not giving new lease of life to dying movement?
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ARVIND
It's strang U first invite me to have a dekko and then say that your are in no mood to discuss the issue !! Instead of wasting time in meaningless debate , let's not extend it further .To be precise we did what we found fit and appropiate as per legal dictums . The likes of Afzal deserve no sympathy at all .Lastly , the parallel was drawn to highlight what should be the fate of a terrorists and not to discuss strength and weaknesses of India .What's the world trying to convey ;kill people and then seek clemency ? We can teach lessons and we have done so in the past.Ask Pakistanis? Our culture deep-rooted in non -violence does not promote bloodshed .However , if politeness has turned into a symmbol of weakness ,let me tell you we wil not wait for orders from the outside world to teach lessons to the enemies . I'm proud to be born in a country where " Gandhi-a naked fakir " was enough to show 35,000 Britishers the door without the use of weapon ? Realize the strentgh of nation when 1.2 bilion souls come to have swords in their hands ? Still , let not such a day come when we have to become the worshippers of sword than being the lovers of "power of self " .After all, what's the point in becoming like others when the sun in all the case is going to set !!!
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VOXPOPULI
I love India and espect power of non-violence of Gandhiji, who believed in pardon and clemacy even for his own killer. You are deviating from his path and losing your real power. That's what I want to point you out.
Pardoning Afzal will stengthen Indian nation more than hanging him. Wish you and your countrymen realise this and follow the path shown by Mahatma instead of Advani.
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Be precise .You forget that he has been convicted in light of evidences vis-a-vis judicial precedents. It's not a case where a someone has been implicated out of political considerations , which for that matter you are all the time trying to suggest . There are many ways to look at the issue. It's really strange that there are so-may well -wishers of a "terrorists " and nothing is said about the manner in which these terrorists are wiping out innocent lives , the way India has turned into den of ISI sponnsored terrorism . Lastly let me quote Christ's word "Even a devil can quote scriptures in his favour " .It's not a matter which falls in the ambit of debate .Have you forgotten the Kandhar issue or for that matter Rubiya Sayeed issue ? The devils don't deserve a sympathetic attention . Did they bothered to think about the consequences of their act ? Is the life of an ordinary man kiled by the bullets of terrorists valueless ?If pardoning alone is way ,what's the hell "war on terror " means ,something fought enthusistically by Brits and Americans ? Do you think that since US has not been able to catch "Osama "it's a weak country ? Or for that matter the way allied forces have made mess in Iraq and Afghanistan make these nation worthy of admiration ? Or do you think Osamas , Saddams and the terorrists which planted bombs in London should be granted pardon ?Then why catch them at all ?Why this drama of long trial and show of mercy ?Above all , Why Americans feel that Pakistan be reduced to "Stone-age " ?Just grant it clemency !!
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VOXPOPULI
Be Precise
What you did in Kandahar?
What you did in Rubina case?
What you did in Charag Shaif case?
Are Bush, US and Blaire are role model for you?
They have took wrong decisions and have strategic failures you want to emulate them?
If you can catch Osama, that is diferent thing. But if you hang any lower rung operative just because you are not capable of catching the Osama, would it be justifiable?
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ARVIND
Legal experts and eminent people have come to the opinion that terrorists deserve no kind consideration.Your arguments don't hold water at all when contrasted with legal sensibilites ,being by-product of conditioning than governed by logical undercurrents.How ironical that even as the debate on hanging goes on ,often triggered by shallow outbursts , Pranab Mukherjee speaks of ISI's dominance in Army ?The killing in Jammu is going on unabated ? And here are some souls who are championing the rights of terrorists ?You will be sad to know that even the Communist's mouthpieces are full of letters which are against showing mercy for Afzal .This being my last response , let we have the abilty to see things in right perspective .After all, it decides the destiny of future generations .Should the devils prevail or Gods come into operation ,it's entirely not into our hand but this shouldn't prevent us from giving shape to right things with right mindset !!!!
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ANOTHER FRIEND OTHER THAN US -A QUITECOMER
My goodness guys - this is really serious exchange.
Very interesting too (and Voxi, you can now come out of doghouse I think - day long enough!). Please be aware Voxi that debating like this perhaps reveals more about you than you realise, if you are trying to be mysterious.
QUITECOMER
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VOX POPULI:
If one act with right mindset, one would not have security issues I guess.
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ARVIND:
Yes,it all depends on our motive ,means and mindset . Anyway , howcome your age in your profile keeps fluctuating ?Have you got HG Wells Time Machine ?If Yes ,please lend me as I am dying to have my lost childhood back ?
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